Build Wealth While Protecting Your Time: The Zen Investor's Mindset

0:00Yeah. Well, you said something really important. What's worth my time? I've been on time freedom for almost 20 years. So, my time I'm basically a time efficiency expert. I don't talk on the phone. I haven't answered my phone in 10 years. People are like, "Oh, how is that possible? Why would I answer my phone if I don't have a set appointment to be on the phone?" It's just kind of silly. Like, what why would people think I'm available at their whim to take a call? I'm not. I'm great at texting because I can do that on the run. But I think, you know, I've learned to evaluate my time and what's worth it, and that's gone to deals.

0:32But generally, when it comes to real estate, I'm what I call an asset hunter. I don't sit around tweaking spreadsheets and going through a whole bunch of noise. I'm really focused on the asset. It doesn't matter what it is, one unit, 10 units, commercial, self- storage. I'm focused on the asset. And when I focus on the asset, that means the asset, the, you know, demographics around it, the migration trends, but I don't put it on a spreadsheet. I just do my research. And my biggest concern is, is this an asset that I want to hold and will appreciate in value?

1:06I was never a cash flow investor, you know, because I didn't have to be, which was fortunate. So, I've always been an appreciation investor, but of course, now I want both. But if I have to choose, I'm always going to take appreciation every single day of the week. I mean, buy real estate and wait. That's what you do. If you just do it, you're going to make money in America. There's a a 100% chance if you wait it out, you'll make money. So, you know, I'm looking for things that will appreciate in areas that will appreciate. And I kind of I became a good investor not just from my dad, but I was a really good home buyer just for myself.

1:43And I've made tons of money on my own personal homes. And you have most investors out there thinking, "Oh, well, my personal home's not important." You know, most my biggest deals, a lot of them have been on my homes that I've lived in, where I've doubled my money in 5 years by doing smart renovations and picking areas before they popped and understanding where people are going. And you know what it means when a Trader Joe's is coming in, it means buy because they're not going to be in for another 18 months. And they've done all the research for you.

2:14You know, it's a Starbucks thing, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Benjamin Moore. You know, those things are tip offs to what's changing in an area. And if you really want to be ahead of the curve, you look for independent coffee shops and small businesses that are still getting good deals that can open because they're going to get the support in these areas. And, you know, couple years from now, especially where I live, you could double your money. You know, I have a lot of people who've done it. It's a little harder now because prices are so high as it is, but but you're going to make substantial appreciation where I am in the Northeast, if you just hang out and wait.

2:47You can literally buy real estate, do nothing, and just leave it there and you're going to make money. Yeah. You know, so it's it's really a hard thing when you hear all the financial analysts and, you know, people who have only worked for Meil Lynch tell you, oh, you don't need real estate in your portfolio. And again, I'm a big stock person. And I have a lot of money in index funds, but like real estate, I can have I have no control over what happens to a stock. I can't value add a stock. I can't influence its outcome. In real estate, I can do all of that and I can do insider trading because real estate's built on insider training, which in real estate is just building relationships.

3:20Yeah. Yeah. That's that's really interesting. I I I've always kind of looked at at it the opposite way in terms of I target cash flow first and then look at appreciation as as a cherry on the top as you know and I've benefited greatly from appreciation over the years. But I I've never I guess from a from a metric standpoint like how do you know you know what you can expect in appreciation? Like what are the metrics that you look at to say yes this is a deal you know and and one another one might not be.

3:52Yeah. I mean, this is where it doesn't work for everybody because for me, I I've been walking I'm 54 now and I've been walking property since I was one. So, I can walk into a property and know the rehab costs in 5 minutes without doing a calculation. I'm just like 65 and I'm usually within 5 or 10K, barring things, you know, behind the walls or under the ground that you can't see. But the cosmetic part, I'm I'm good. And I'm the same way with an asset. I am always studying and driving neighborhoods. Like when we did vacations as a kid, we were looking at real estate.

4:26My we were just driving around like why are we just going for a drive? He's like just let's look at just look at the area, see what kind of area it is. Next thing you know, you know, we buy something in Jupiter, Florida cuz my dad likes it there. And then my dad moved to Florida. So that's kind of how I am. I'm always driving neighborhoods and as an agent, you know, I'm doing tons of showings all the time. And when I'm doing showings, I'm like, after the showing, if I'm not going to another one, I'm going to drive that neighborhood. I'm going to drive the downtown because I'm really focused and love although I keep collapsing my own deals on Main Street mixed use, which I think is like my favorite asset class that all I want to do is buy that, but you know, I'm just I've had three or four failed deals just because I again I'm tough negotiator.

5:06I don't have time for a lot of BS. But it's really I don't have a formula for it. I don't put stuff in spreadsheets. If I'm doing a a major, like when I'm investing in syndications, I'm looking at their spreadsheets, but I don't really I run a lot of my life on spreadsheets, but I don't do due diligence for small deals on spreadsheets. It's really just a feel for me. Am I getting a good vibe for the neighborhood? Am I seeing things clo nearby that indicate that there's going to be a thing? And in the end, it's because I'm betting on myself because I have the experience.

5:37I don't expect someone with one year to of experience to know that. But PS, if you only have one year of doing real estate and you've done one flip and you've lived in the same town for 20 years, you should be an expert on your town. You only have to be an expert on your local area to do well as an investor. You also need to understand the numbers, but I'm assuming you're getting there along the way. But if you even if you're not good with flip costs, if you know what a good deal looks like and wow, why you know like this is a this is like a breaking part of town where I think things are going to go well, you know, then you bet on your knowledge of the town instead of your knowledge of real estate at the time.

6:14Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. No, that makes sense. I What is it about the the main street mixed use that that you has has been ideal for you? And then what's been your main deal source for those those types of deals? Well, I I again I keep finding them and most of them I find on the MLS, but then I collapse my own deal. Four in the last three years that I've gone under contract on, been in inspections and just canceled the deal. Because the people just do weird stuff and I don't I don't have time for it. But the reason that I like mixed us is because it's a diversified asset in and of itself.

6:47You know, you have residential and commercial in it. And part of my theory is based on how I open that, you know, gallery in the in the artist colony in Sarasota. If I have commercial spaces available, I can use them to open a new business. I could buy a franchise. I can put something in there. Or I can give my kids the opportunity to open a business. Or I can give somebody local the opportunity to open a business where if it doesn't succeed, great. It's just a space that I own anyway and I can still do it. And I feel like that's something that's really exciting.

7:18So, if I have two retail, you know, and then two residential, my residential tenants is going to be a little bit easier, but my retail tenants are going to be easier in a different way because that's going to be a longer lease. Might they go out of business? Yeah, but I'm post pandemic now looking at these things where people are going to want to come back and people need to go back into offices and they're bored, you know, working out of their home office. So, I just really really believe in what I call main street mixed use, which is the major street normally actually called Main Street in your town because I think that's where the development should go.

7:52And I'm interested in the hybrid development of Main Street as well. You know, mixeduse projects which are going to be multiple residential with that retail on the first level to bring people back to walking towns and the walkability, you know, which is obviously been corrupted by the roads because we have so many cars. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I I agree. And I you know, I've been traditionally in short-term rentals and but a very similar mindset with towns.

8:23You know, it sounds like relatively smaller towns outside of major cities is where you're focused and that's that's where I'm focused as well. And also, if you can buy in the path of progress, you see these towns like you said, Yeah. Where they're they're putting in higherend businesses and amenities and you know, you're just going to capture that over time that upside. So, you can be the conduit for it if you create the the newer building that is gonna be able to harbor that growth. And I think, you know, that again goes back to what I'm saying like, you know, those neighborhoods.

8:56I know these neighborhoods. It's I walk I know every single piece of property that's on Main Street and I live two houses from Main Street on purpose because I want to know that whole area. And then I go to all the other main streets in the area. And a lot of ways that I judge which town I should go to is how is it on the main street? You know, is it is it is it doing well? You know, can somebody walk here? I'm in New Jersey, so the train to New York City is really important. Is it a train town? I live in a non-train town, but I'm only 12 minutes from a train town, so I'm a little bit more suburban.

9:29But I think, you know, these are all things where investors these days have a very low like confidence level because all they're doing is watching Instagram and Tik Tok and thinking that it's going to teach them things, which it does. Books, podcasts, YouTube, all helpful, but you don't really take action until you go to real estate investor meetups. Has real estate investor friends and see things in real life. You know, the there's too many people out there with investing with little to zero reps of looking at houses and they're they're buying a house where they've never even looked in a basement in their life.

10:03That's insane. It doesn't make any sense at all. If you don't know what's in a basement, that's how you lose all your money because that's where the problems are. Basement and attic. You can pretty much see cosmetically everything else other than things that are, you know, just a crapshoot, something behind the walls that you wouldn't expect. So, I think like new investors are really suffering from that. Too much social media and not enough in-person reps with people and with properties. Got it. Yeah. Yeah, it totally makes sense. One thing you mentioned is is you're an efficiency expert. And you know, the fact that you don't answer your phone, it super intrigues me.

10:38I I I mean, I think about efficiency a lot because I think like, you know, that's such a cornerstone of a successful business is being really efficient. And your platform is called Zen and the Art of Real Estate Investing. U, which I read that your dad had an impact on that name as well. So I guess how do you how do you prioritize your opportunities? Because I know you have probably more than than you have time for in a really efficient way. And and where does that name Zen and the art of real estate investing come from to to where you can stay zen but yet still you know control your time and control the number of opportunities to stay in a a state where you're productive but yet also very zen.

11:26Yeah, great question. They're tied together. As I was saying before, I'm into micro marketing. So, I'm much more likely to market to 20 homes on one block that I like than spamming two 250 homes in a geographical area where it just I don't I can't even I I don't take those calls. So, I don't want my phone ringing that much. But, if I cue them in as mailer number one of 20, I'll answer those calls because I know what's coming in. I don't use services. Is I I have VAS for my other business, but I don't find them to be very productive.

12:01You know, they don't want to deal with a conglomerate. They want to deal with the local. The best buyers of homes are local home buyers who know the area and know Bob and Sally down the street and they've done 14 deals in this area because you can talk locally. If you live like you're in Indiana, I'm in New Jersey. If I'm trying to buy in Indiana and you and I are on the same phone call, you're going to win because you know the blocks. I don't know the blocks. I'm looking on Google and it's obvious and your regular home home seller doesn't want to sell to that. So, by being so efficient and not filling my plate too much, it allows me to be more zen and more mindful and do the things that I have time for for myself, which is a lot of self-care and a lot of discipline and, you know, exercise and walking and meditation and things that keep me focused on business.

12:45Because a lot of people always think like, "Oh, well, I could be good at business no matter what." It's just completely crap. If your mental state is off, you know, if you're going through a divorce or if a parent just died or your kid's sick, you're you shouldn't be trying to do an investment, you know. So, part of what I do is I just try to keep myself focused on all the right things so that when it comes to business, I I'm fine. And I think it helps that I could take or leave any deal. Could care less. There's not a single deal that I've ever seen in my life that I won't drop in one second, which is why these deals have failed because people think like they're in the driver's seat and if they want to cancel, I'm I'll cancel because that's a sign to me that it's not worth it.

13:27And that that's how my dad was. You know, we would go to yard sale every weekend and everyone asked, "Oh, why'd you go to so many yard sales?" I'm like, "Well, my dad liked weird stuff and I like toys and I was looking for baseball cards and video games." But my dad made an offer on every single house. But he didn't just go up and say, "Hey, you know, like a mailer now. Hey, I'll buy your house quick for cash." Which he would, but that wasn't his pitch. He was like, "Hey, I see you're having a yard sale. Are you moving?" "Oh, cool. Where are you moving to?" "Oh, that's awesome. You know, I've lived in Bedford for this many years. You know, I I buy houses. You know, if you're ever interested, he just leave him the card.

13:58And then he would just follow up and drive by if they had another yard sale or he'd call them in a few months." He he was he was never pushy. And people suffer so bad from pushiness in this space right now. I mean, I get hundreds of texts a day that are all spam. So, why would I ever answer my phone? 90% of it is is absolute spam with people who don't even know that I'm scheduled. Like, why would I answer a call at 3:00 on a Tuesday? Aren't I working or doing whatever I want? I do talk on the phone. I just only talk on the phone when it's scheduled.

14:28And generally, I won't even do the phone. I'll go to Zoom so I can record it. It's my background as a lawyer. I've been involved in so many real estate transactions in my life. And because I document everything via text or via a Zoom, there's no way that anytime somebody says, "Oh, you said this." I'm like, "I'll just send you the text." I did not say that cuz we haven't spoken. And anytime somebody in a real estate transaction wants to talk on the phone, it's because they want to tell you something to either get money off or get more money depending on which side you're on.

15:00Because otherwise what's the point of talking on the phone? They're either going to explain something which is going to help they think is going to put you in in a you know put them in a better light and I'm just saving them because of the amount of negotiation that I've done in my life over you know prison, jail life. I'm not fun to negotiate with and I know that my BS meter is is pretty good. So I'm saving people from having a phone call with me. Just tell me what you want in a text and I'll answer it. And I'd say 99.9% of the time when I tell someone just text me and I'll get right back to you.

15:36They text me, I answer the question. It was absolutely not something that I needed to take a phone call for. It's just absolutely one question and I can answer, you know, 72 and they're like, "Oh, thanks." Like, "Why did you think that you need to call me to get an answer when we have text messaging?" You know, it's just it's just the way that I keep my life organized and I honestly don't enjoy the phone. If I'm on the phone, I'm on on the computer. So, I'll just be doing other stuff. So, when I'm like this, I can't go on the computer. That's why I do Zooms. I like to see somebody's face.

16:07I'm also extremely monotone if you haven't noticed. So, if I do a phone call, people will think, hey, you know, like you're that's not you don't have any like emotion for this or you're not being friendly. But if they can see me, I laugh and smile. I'm not a robot. It's just that this is the way that I talk. And it's the same way that I text. But, you know, someone wants an answer. It's like, you know, do you want to get this property? I'm not sure. They're like, what's wrong? I'm like, nothing's wrong. I'm texting you. I'm not sure if I want the property yet. It's pretty simple. Like, that's the answer to to the question.

16:39So, you know, phone calls to me, just because of what I just said, are the biggest waste of time in everybody's life. I think people always say, "Oh, no. I accomplished so much on the phone." You could accomplish it in way less time. There's not. Sometimes it is necessary, but I'd say probably 1% of the time is a phone call really necessary? And even if it is, you'd be much better doing a Zoom so you could see each other face to face.